For the 13th episode of his podcast, Jim Goad’s Group Hug, far-right columnist Jim Goad interviewed Michael A. Hoffman, author of the ahistorical book They Were White and They Were Slaves: The Untold Story of Enslavement of Whites in Early America.

Goad has previously touted Hoffman’s research on “white slavery” in an interview with Red Ice host Henrik Palmgren. And while this interview was supposed to tackle the same subject, things immediately went off the rails when Goad pointed out that Hoffman’s Wikipedia page describes him as a “Holocaust denier.”

Hoffman played dumb, claiming that he doesn’t “know what a Holocaust denier is,” and denouncing the term as “Orwellian newspeak.” As he explained:

The problem with use of the word “Holocaust,” which was imposed in the 1960s and became popular after the movie of that name in the late ’70s, is that it’s so ambiguous. I mean it can mean anything. We’ve all seen the photograph of the little Judaic boy with his arms raised and a gun-toting Nazi behind him. If you say that you don’t believe in the Holocaust are you saying that you don’t believe that the Nazis forced children to put their hands up? Are you saying that there weren’t any concentration camps or the Judaic people were not mercilessly persecuted? All those things are true, and if that’s your definition of “Holocaust” then the Holocaust is true.

But, he complained, when he asked if there really were “homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz” he was “unjustly” subjected to a “career-ending stigma.” He continued, explaining that he doesn’t “deny the Israeli Holocaust against the Palestinians” or “the Holocaust against the white poor which was the epoch of white slavery.”

Goad, in a similarly disingenuous fashion, stated, “I’ve written in the past that I deny the existence of Holocaust denial, because I’ve never run across anyone who says Hitler loved Jews, didn’t kill any, didn’t try to deport any.”

Goad accused people of merely “quibbl[ing] over numbers” and deflected by asking about the “non-Jewish civilians” were killed in WWII. “How many Americans were killed in WWII?” asked Hoffman. “That’s another lost statistic.” Goad answered that it was roughly one million.

“And so we all know about this Kabbalistic figure of six million alleged Judaics [sic] who were said to have perished,” Hoffman said, “and yet our own American troops, it’s a number that doesn’t really concern the professorocracy or very much the American media. And that’s of course an insult to every veteran who served in that terrible fratricide.”

Bizarre references to “Kabbalistic figure[s]” and The Troops™ aside, Goad and Hoffman then peddled another Holocaust denial talking point: that the six million figure had been used prior to WWII in relation to the suffering of the Jewish people. Goad pressed Hoffman to elaborate on this point, and Hoffman in turn promoted a book published by Germar Rudolf.

Rudolf, a 53-year-old German chemist, is best known for his attempts at disproving the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Rudolf’s arguments hinge on the presence of Prussian blue, an iron compound, in facilities where Zyklon-B was used for delousing purposes but not in facilities used for murdering Jewish prisoners. (This and other arguments have been rebutted here.) In 2007, Rudolf was sentenced to two and a half years in prison for inciting racial hatred.

Hoffman said that this book proved the existence of a WWI-era article warning that “six million Jews are oppressed in Tsarist Russia” and “six million Jews are suffering in the epoch of WWI.” One article in question seems to fit Hoffman’s description — a 1919 opinion piece written by New York Gov. Martin H. Glynn for The American Hebrew.

Titled “The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!”, the article alleges that, “From across the sea six million men and women call to us for help, and eight hundred thousand little children cry for bread.” It proposed that U.S. citizens do something to assist these starving European Jews, and called their plight a “threatened holocaust of human life.”

Other than the similar number — nearly seven million starvation victims — there is no apparent connection between Glynn’s article and the extermination of European Jews in WWII. To the mind of a conspiracy theorist — which obsesses over small discrepancies and patterns where none exist — this is proof that six million is a “magical figure” borrowed from Zionist propaganda, and that the number of Jewish victims was inflated.

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