A Voice for Men Forum on “What Women Want”

"Shut the fuck up! You should just fucking smile, and blow me! ‘Cause I deserve it!" -Mel Gibson
“Shut the fuck up! You should just fucking smile, and blow me! ‘Cause I deserve it!” -Mel Gibson

From what I can gather, Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs), Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), and pickup artists (PUAs) often have nothing but contempt for one another, though the groups occasionally intersect. There are, however, two commonalities that they all share: their unrelenting misogyny (and occasionally racism and homophobia) and their unfounded assumption that they have any understanding of either sex. Oftentimes they come off as exceedingly creepy when they try to analyze what men and women should desire — especially women.

It actually kind of reminds me of Mel Gibson in his faux-romcom What Women Want (2000), wherein the Mad Max star plays a chauvinistic blowhard who, through an unfortunate accident with a hairdryer, comes to read women’s minds. This newfound power allows him to discover, as the title implies, what women actually want, and he uses it, at first, to boost his seduction techniques — before he predictably learns his lesson in the third act, that is. Gibson’s character throughout most of the film doesn’t “get” women. The film itself struggles to “get” women. And the ultimate irony is that this character was portrayed by a despicable domestic abuser and anti-Semite who, in real life, has absolutely no clue “what women want.”

Which brings me to A Voice for Men Forum, where MRA and MGTOW members congregate to discuss their hatred of feminism, women, and any men who don’t indulge in their rank misogyny. In a topic thread which posits the question “Is there a silver lining to women choosing assholes?”, AVFM denizens discuss what women really want, with very little success. “Godzeta,” the thread creator, began by asking, “[C]ould being an MRA actually make a man more attractive to women?” (Implicit in that question is the belief that being an “MRA” is the same as being an “asshole.”) Following the first post was a litany of responses by guys who clearly have their fedoras on too tightly.

Someone who calls himself “salesguy” wrote, “Guys can be nice and still maintain boundaries. Women need boundaries…Women want a man that will bang them hard, be strong, and take control. They are wired that way. I know my comments may create a shit storm, but I really believe it is programmed into our DNA.” He then links to a thread on Reddit: Red Pill about how American culture encourages “bad girl behavior,” which makes them prime targets for extramarital affairs. “This is reality if you don’t pick the right kind of woman,” he said.

Commenter “Bortasz” disagreed with this assessment, stating that, “This translate to: NAWALT. Not all women are like that. With is fallacy. Every women should be treated that he is like that, and when she prove otherwise you should treat her as she is that kind of women in disguise.” Coming to the subject of marriage, “Bortasz” compared it to “putting [a] gun in [your] mouth and giving [your wife] the trigger.”

In response, “fschmidt” assailed Western culture in general, and claimed that “[m]odern, Western culture is sick and evil.” “To maintain a decent marriage,” he wrote, “one needs to join an anti-Western religion with one’s wife. Orthodox Judaism and Islam are the obvious choices with Eastern Orthodox Christianity a distant third.” He also believes that American men should forgo dating American women and, instead, marry foreign girls because “foreign women do make better wives regardless.” Of course, “fschmidt” is active on a multitude of other forums, chief among them his own CoAlpha Reactionary Forum, where he authors pro-rape screeds such as this one entitled “Rape and Adultery”:

Why is rape a crime beyond just being assault?  The answer is that it is an evolutionary crime against a woman to force her to have children with a man not of her choice.  In evolutionary terms, our main purpose is to reproduce.  The success of our genes is determined by how well we reproduce.  For a woman, one of the most important things that she can control for reproduction is the choice of the man to have children with.  To force her to have children with a man not of her choice causes extreme emotional pain precisely because it is so important in evolutionary terms.

Compare this to the rape of a man.  If one thinks of a woman raping a man, it is almost comical because it is so meaningless.  It is meaningless because it has no evolutionary impact, or may even have a slight positive impact for the man.  Women can only have a limited number of children, so they must be selective in sex.  Men can have an unlimited number of children, so men have no need to be selective in sex.  A feminist may raise the issue of a man raping a man.  But this is simply assault and nothing more.  So the point is that rape is a crime against women, not men[…]

So now we can consider if rape is every justified.  Imagine a society where prostitution is illegal and women constantly provoke men.  Of course, there is no need to imagine this society, because it exists in the USA.  A single man in this society is in a similar situation to the woman described above for whom adultery is justified.  Single men in this society have no outlet for their evolutionary need for sex, so just as the married woman above was justified in adultery, men here are justified in rape.  Banning prostitution harms men the way banning divorce harms women.  If women don’t want to be raped, they should push for legal prostitution and they should dress more modestly.

“fschmidt” is also of the opinion that while “Nazi Germany serves as the benchmark of evil,” American women are probably “worse.”

Another user, a “nice guy” whose handle is “bigboy83,” lamented that, “In their younger years [women] go for the ass holes (prime years). Then wants they hit 30 there asking around about those nice guys. Problem is they lost their looks, gain weight and all used up. Nobody wants them anyone, they go on the Internet begging a guy to date them.”

“Milford Cubicle” attempted to justify women dating “assholes,” and did so by bringing out the old “men were hunters and protectors” trope:

IN defense of women choosing bad asses.

Men predominately made the better hunters, the best survival skills, the best inventors, and the best defendors against invaders. These were essential responsibilities for men to have to step up to. So women are in that much more need of a protector. A bad ass appears to be a better protector. For instance who’s going to make a better navy seal? A deeply compassionate person or a person who can kill someone without their conscience being troubled?

The compassionate guy would make a better medic I guess, but not the better warrior. I can’t fault women for being attracted more to the tough guy. Evolution may have given them that ability because for so many thousands of years, the tough guy is the better defender and protector and probably hunter as well. A lot of sensitive guys wouldn’t be good at shooting an innocent animal with a bunch of arrows or spears and then slitting it’s throat and skinning it and decapitating it. That was one silver lining.

If only he mentioned mammoth-hunting.

It’s clear, however, that much like Mel Gibson’s sexist character “Nick Marshall,” these folks haven’t the slightest clue what women want. They should probably spend more time around women, if only there were more women who wished to spend time with them.

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