A few days ago, Gavin McInnes interviewed white nationalist Jared Taylor on his eponymous online show. The subject of their discussion was the relationship between race and criminality, and Taylor had just released the third edition of his controversial Color of Crime booklet. In The Color of Crime, Taylor uses a faulty analysis — to put it charitably — of crime statistics in order to prove that certain races (blacks and Hispanics) are more prone to committing violent crime than other races (whites and East Asians).

Originally published in 1999, The Color of Crime has been a staple of the white nationalist/alt-right movement for over a decade. It has also been subjected to several debunkings over the years. (See here and here. The book The Color of Justice is also a valuable resource.) Now Taylor is advertising the 2016 version of the booklet, and advertising it with the assistance of Vice Media co-founder and frequent Fox News guest Gavin McInnes.

The dialogue between McInnes and Taylor is every bit as cringeworthy and awkward as you’d expect.

“Now we had a feminist on the show recently, and she was talking about rape culture,” said McInnes. “And she was basically saying ‘I’ll stop hating men when they stop hating…when they stop raping women.'” McInnes (allegedly) retorted that rape is “primarily a black thing,” and asked the woman if she was “sick of black men raping women.” According to McInnes, “it ends up being, the odds of you getting sexually assaulted by a black are like six thousand percent higher than a white.”

“Yes,” Taylor replied. “Those statistics, those go back to when the Justice Department was still releasing the racial component of those statistics. That’s the National Crime Victimization Survey. I have used those statistics in the past, but I hesitate to do so now because the number of blacks who are sexually assaulted by whites is so small that it’s statistically insignificant. Some people round it down to zero, which makes no sense either.”

“But there’s absolutely no question that black-on-white rape vastly, vastly outnumbers white-on-black sexual assault,” he added.

The pair also discussed the difference between whites and white Hispanics. McInnes stated that someone like former Mexican president Vicente Fox “looks white” to him, but added that he knew Fox and others like him “weren’t white” when he “looked into what they’ve invented in the past 500 years” — a comment Taylor seemed to find amusing. “Is the guy who mows your lawn, does he look white?” Taylor asked.

McInnes used this moment to segue into a popular trope among white supremacists: the belief that whites, in particular white men, are unique in their ability to build and create. McInnes believes that whites have this particular talent because they have “a combination of high IQ and balls.” Again, Taylor agreed, stating somewhat less crudely that without white men “we’d all be taking a pee in slit [trench] latrines.”

Finally Taylor got around to promoting his racist Color of Crime tract, and bragged that the “main researcher” for the 2016 edition was Edwin S. Rubenstein, a frequent contributor to MarketWatch as well as the white nationalist website VDARE. McInnes couldn’t let Rubenstein’s ethnic background slide, making a gesture that symbolized Rubenstein having a large nose. “What’s this”? Taylor asked coyly. “That’s my, uh, Jew, uh, finger thing,” McInnes replied.

Taylor, it should be noted, is far from being a rabid anti-Semite — in spite of his views toward other ethnic and racial groups. However, anti-Semitism has been a bit of a sore spot for the American Renaissance crowd, at least since the time when David Duke caused an uproar at one of its conferences.

During a Q&A session, Duke — a Holocaust denier and former Klansman — said that there is a “power in the world that dominates our media, influences our government and that has led to the internal destruction of our will and spirit.” In response, Michael Hart, a Jewish astrophysicist and frequent AmRen conference attendee, shouted back, “You fucking Nazi, you’ve disgraced this meeting!”

Since then Taylor and other AmRen speakers have deftly avoided the so-called “Jewish question” that has proven itself so divisive among the white nationalist community. McInnes must have realized this, as he quickly added, “Just kidding! We’re not anti-Semites here!”

He also quoted Taylor himself — summoning the best impersonation of Taylor’s accent that he could muster — as saying, “It gets to the point where people want to blame the Jews if it rains on their birthday.” “You’re quoting me precisely, and you’re imitating me brilliantly,” said Taylor. (As an aside, Jared Taylor’s distinct manner of speech always reminded me of Rex from A Claymation Christmas: “It’s wassailing. I know it’s wassailing.”)

While that might be amusing, what Jared Taylor said next certainly wasn’t. After reciting various crime statistics from his booklet, Taylor asserted that “if New York City were all-white,” crime would plummet to such a degree that you’d be able to “lay off most of the police force.”

It wasn’t just blacks, Hispanics, and Jews who were targeted either. Taylor also had some interesting factoids about Asians. Consequently, this led to one of the weirder moments of the interview. While stating that Asians tend to commit crimes at a lower rate than even whites, Taylor said that there is “one crime for which Asians are off the charts.” McInnes eagerly jumped in to make a guess.

“Lemmie guess. It involves penises,” he exclaimed.  “No,” said Taylor, chuckling. “Not rape? It’s not rape?” McInnes inquired. “What?!” asked a clearly mortified Taylor, “You think Asians are out there raping people?!”

McInnes admitted to having misunderstood the question — apparently believing Taylor asked what crime Asians were most unlikely to commit. Taylor revealed that the answer was actually gambling, and told McInnes this question would make an excellent “IQ test that you can inflict on all of your friends.” “Now if they really know their racial stereotypes in an accurate way they’ll think to themselves, ‘Ah yes, Chinese love to gamble.'”