On June 21, 2024, right-wing streamer Tim Pool brought white supremacist Richard Spencer on his YouTube show, The Culture War with Tim Pool. Spencer’s appearance was part of a debate with Andrew Wilson, a far-right, anti-LGBTQ Internet personality who once went by the moniker “Big Papa Fascist.”

One of the most notorious white supremacists in America, Spencer was a key organizer of 2017’s deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, VA. In 2021, a federal jury found Spencer and other white supremacist figures liable for the racist violence that took place at the rally, as well as a torchlit march the night before.

Over the course of the livestream, Spencer and Wilson sparred over topics ranging from the 2024 presidential election to Enlightenment values.

During one segment about declining birthrates, the panel discussed ways to encourage American couples to have more children. Tim Pool asked whether the government could do so by having “an award ceremony for the biggest families” — likening it to the Grammys.

Richard Spencer smiled and said that a “certain 20th century controversial regime,” had already done so. Spencer was referring to Nazi Germany, which awarded a medal, known as the Cross of Honor of the German Mother, to mothers of good character who raised at least four children.

But a point of contention arose when discussing whether or not Christian conservatives could increase their numbers by simply having more children. Spencer pointed out that “even if all of these Evangelicals have a bunch of kids,” their children could still “turn into liberals in a few generations.”

“Are Evangelicals — and I’m just positing this because I don’t know exactly where I fall on this — but are Evangelicals kind of baby-making factories for future liberals?” Spencer asked.

Wilson replied that “the ideology of progressivism” isn’t “going to go away,” but that it “will be greatly curtailed” because “it’s just a numbers game.” Wilson stated that progressives “whittle themselves off because they become nihilists” while conservatives continue to have children.

During the same discussion, Spencer and Wilson continued arguing over birthrates and whether increasing the human population is positive or negative.

Wilson said that there is a “golden opportunity to make our country extremely powerful if we’re some of the first at the forefront in getting the birthrate back up.” He added that if the U.S. had Israel’s birthrate, “we’d have a massive advantage in human capital” and a “homogenous nation.”

Spencer told Wilson that he didn’t “disagree with so much of what you’re saying,” but pushed back on what he called the concept of “radical natalism.” When asked to define “radical natalism,” Spencer likened it to Elon Musk’s view that we should “have tons of kids” so that “we’ll soon be in the stars.”

“If you’re just saying ‘have more children,’ that sounds like you’re gonna fill up more and more favelas, to be honest,” Spencer said. “Like, it doesn’t follow that there’s simply more people out there, like, who breathe oxygen and are, you know, big-brained apes — mammals — and you’re gonna therefore reach the stars.”

He also predicted that “promoting fertility is going to create a colossal global underclass.” Wilson dismissed these concerns, however, stating that, no matter what, “you’re still gonna have a colossal underclass.” He added that “pronatalism brings about, you know, a human species.”

Spencer reiterated that the “real issue is that we’re creating a massive underclass population globally that is being fed, that is not starving.” He also argued that with fewer people, there would be more natural, open spaces to explore.

“I mean, wouldn’t you like to go to the African continent and it’s free, like there’s just — there’re animals everywhere. It’s dangerous, in fact,” he said. “It’s a truly undiscovered place. Isn’t there some deep spiritual need we have for nature? Don’t you want North America to have wild places on it as well?”

Wilson said no, reasoning that we don’t “need to contract all of humanity so that you feel better about going to Africa and being scared by a lion.” He also compared Spencer’s view to the message on the Georgia Guidestones — a now-dismantled monument inscribed with the instruction to maintain the population below 500,000,000.”

Wilson referred to this belief as “mass globalist, anti-natalist Satanism.” When another of Pool’s panelists, Phil Labonte, said he wasn’t “so sure about the Satanism part,” Wilson said that “an anti-natalist policy in and of itself requires abortion” and “contraception,” and is therefore a “pretty Satanic agenda.”