I realize I missed this, but on December 14, 2016, The Daily Stormer’s Andrew Anglin, The Right Stuff’s Mike Enoch, and Radix Journal‘s Richard Spencer joined one another for a podcast called “Between Two Lampshades.” Yes, that is both a reference to Zach Galifianakis and his “Between Two Ferns” program and the post-WWII rumor that Jewish concentration camp prisoners were turned into human lampshades.

This is unsurprising for both Anglin and Enoch, both outspoken anti-Semites. For Spencer, who tries to avoid giving off the impression that he’s a Neo-Nazi, it’s a different story altogether. If Spencer’s extremism wasn’t already betrayed by his calls for a white ethnostate, his shouts of “Hail Trump!”, or his sinister response to whether or not he considers Jews white, then his appearance alongside these two on an anti-Semitic platform should erase any remaining doubts about what kind of person Spencer is.

The three white supremacists (or “First Triumvirate” as Anglin wrote at The Daily Stormer) talked about their hopes for the Trump administration, halting immigration, Muslim “rape gangs” and the benefits of using abortion to control the black population, among other things.

On the subject of the Affordable Care Act, Spencer asked why the U.S. doesn’t “have a goddamn single payer healthcare system” where “if you get in a wreck, they’ll take care of you” and “they’ll charge you like a hundred bucks.” A valid question to which Enoch replied that “diversity” prevented it. That is to say, the presence of non-whites is responsible for our current healthcare woes.

Enoch also complained that countries with more government control over healthcare such as the UK have “actually imported a bunch of Muslims to be doctors.” Enoch asked Spencer and Anglin to imagine how “alienating” it could be for a white person to seek a healthcare professional and be met by a “foreigner.” To him the greatest indignity is that our elders are being cared for by immigrants, and that veterans are looked after by doctors and nurses who hail from countries they once invaded.

Anglin remarked that it was like something out of “a psychedelic science-fiction.”

Spencer: Why don’t we just have a goddamn single payer healthcare system. I’m sorry, I guess I’m so anti-conservative at this point. Just like, why don’t we just have a post office solution where, if you get in a car wreck, they’ll take care of you? And they’ll charge you like a hundred bucks or something?

Enoch: Well —

Spencer: Why don’t we just —

Enoch: — we can’t do that because of diversity.

Anglin: Yeah.

Enoch: I mean, we all know what would happen in that situation, right? Like I’m not against that in principle, right? But we know —

Spencer: Yeah.

Enoch: We know where that kind of thing is successful, and the kind of conditions. We’ve seen that be successful —

Spencer: Right.

Enoch: — in Scandinavian countries.

Anglin: It wasn’t even a problem in the UK, but, I mean, now it is.

Enoch: Yeah. I mean there’s a few other issues with the National Health Service in the UK, and one of them is that it’s lead to the UK government — of course this is all due to ideology, right? They’ve actually imported a bunch of Muslims to be doctors in the UK. So in the UK, I mean think of how alienating that is. And we talk about this on on our show too, we talk about some of the healthcare services.

And this is why this is so important, what we’re doing. Okay, yeah, we’re meming and we’re having fun fucking with journalists, but there’s like the real shit about why we kind of have to do this. So, in the UK basically if you wanna see a health professional, you’re going to see a foreigner.

And in America, we’re putting old people in these homes where they’re being looked after by these immigrants. That they get some easy-to-get — it’s not a registered nurse, it’s like a lower thing than that. It takes like six months to get the certification. Basically every Latinx woman gets one, and they don’t really speak English, they don’t give a fuck about these old people, and they’re just doing this for a paycheck and to stay in this country. And it’s a freakin’ disgrace that we’re letting this happen.

Anglin: These videos on YouTube are horrible. [Inaudible]

Enoch: Yeah, the VA is a complete mess. The VA is a total mess because of this. So all of the soldiers that fought for this country are getting this shitty care from [the VA]. It’s one of the weirdest things in the world. They went and invaded this country, and then like thirty years later when the need veterans’ healthcare, immigrants from that country are their nurses. Like, what the hell is going on with that?

Spencer: [Laughter]

Enoch: No, I mean, it’s literally true. You’ve got these Vietnam vets that are going to the VA hospital staffed by Vietnamese staff.

Anglin: It’s like a psychedelic science-fiction.

Enoch: It’s unbelievable, really. If you told somebody that a hundred years ago, they’d be like “What? No, I can’t.” That’s like some kind of insane, weird sci-fi you were talking about. So I mean, these are the kinds of reasons we have to win. It’s like, yeah, oh, I love fucking with journalists. And I do. Just trust me, I love this stuff. But come on, this is not a sane society.

The three then shifted gears to immigration policy, and Enoch hoped that Trump’s administration might make good on the president-elect’s promise to build a wall and deport undocumented immigrants. However, he believes that the focus should be shifted from “illegal” immigration to all forms of immigration, regardless of legality.

Fundamentally, he said, the problem is they’re “not us, they’re not our same race, they’re not our same culture, they’re not our same language.” Instead, they want to “rent seek off the institutions that we’ve created” and which they are “incapable of creating in their own countries” and which they will eventually destroy. Both forms of immigration are problematic, he added, because “if the illegals have kids then they’re [legal] citizens” subject to all the rights afforded to white, natural born citizens.

He also hailed the National Origins Act of 1924, which set up racial and ethnic quotas for our immigration system, as a revolutionary piece of legislation. (Anglin joked that it should have been called the “1488 Act” in reference to David Lane’s “14 Words” and the Nazi code for “Heil Hitler.”) Spencer pointed out that the Act was even more radical than Enoch knew, since it was designed by Madison Grant to return America to a “Nordic” country free of even Italians and Irish.

Enoch: It remains to be seen. I mean hopefully this will translate into policy. I think that we have a very good chance at getting some policies that we want with this administration. You know I’m keeping my fingers crossed, and we’ll see. But I think that the good thing about this line about [how] legal immigration is the problem and it’s not just illegals, I mean I think both are problems but yeah, really fundamentally what the problem is is that we’re having people that are aliens and don’t want to be —

Anglin: Not us.

Enoch: They’re not us, they’re not our same race, they’re not our same culture, they’re not our same language. And they don’t want to be part of us, they just kinda wanna rent seek off the institutions that we’ve created that they actually, frankly, are incapable of creating in their own countries, and will, in fact, lead to the downfall of those institutions here as well in sufficient numbers. So this is the problem.

And it’s legal or illegal. Both can be problematic because if the illegals have kids then they’re citizens. And so the reason that the line about legal immigration strikes at the heart of the matter is ’cause it takes away that legal-illegal excuse. There’s a lot of people who I think are getting this on an emotional level or a feeling level.

And we’ve seen this. We see studies that [show that] that more surrounded by Hispanic immigrants any white person is, the more they start favoring immigration reform. Like they’ve studied this. And it makes sense because some of them, I’m sure, are nice people, but this isn’t really how I wanted to live in my own country, in my own town. So yeah, I would rather these people went home. So that’s the issue. And so if you say it’s not the illegality that’s the issue, it’s the people —

Spencer: Right.

Enoch: — it makes people confront that concept, which is something that’s been systematically removed from discourse. And it’s sort of interesting because it’s not something that people used to be shy about talking about. And that was, I think, one of the great things that Kevin MacDonald pointed out at his speech at NPI, [that] this is not something that people were shy about talking about previously. And the whole crux of the 1924 — was it ’24 or ’22?

Spencer: It’s ’24. Yes.

Enoch: Okay, ’24. I think there was two. I think there was one in ’22 and then a supplemental [law] in ’24, but basically the National Origins Act. I mean it’s called the National Origins Act. Like that’s what it was called. Obviously —

Anglin: They should’ve called it the 1488 Act.

Enoch: Yeah. Obviously they knew what they were doing, right? They knew what they were talking about.

Spencer: In 1924 we’re like, “We have no idea what 88 could possibly mean. Or 14. However…”

Enoch: Yeah, they didn’t know either of those things, but yeah. But they knew what they were talking about when they were saying “Look, people can only come in to the extent they’re already here.” And —

Spencer: Sorry to interject here, but it was actually more radical than that. Madison Grant’s vision of the ’24 Act was actually to go back to the racial origins of the United States before the great immigration wave. So it really was a Nordic, Anglo Act where it was —

Anglin:They were trying to get rid of Italians.

Spencer: Yeah, I mean he was. Remember, Mexico was actually not mentioned in the 1924 Act. That was not the issue.

Enoch: Yeah they were worried about Catholics, frankly.

Spencer: Yeah, he was trying to recreate a Nordic America. So it was a very radical Act that I think, in a way, even people who defended [him] don’t quite understand how —

Enoch: Yeah, we’re even cucks compared to them, frankly, ’cause we’re willing to accept Italians and Irish.

Then they brought up reports of anti-Polish assaults following the Brexit vote in the UK, which infuriated Enoch. After all, Poles are white and England is “getting raped and invaded by Muslims” — a far greater threat than any white person. Anglin said it was akin to Americans being angry at Mexicans instead of focusing on, say, Somalis, which the young skinhead deemed “significantly worse.”

“Yes. Somalians [sic] are significantly worse,” Enoch replied, adding that “Muslims of any sort” are worse and that “Nobody really wants them.” He cited polls conducted on Trump’s proposed Muslim ban as proof of this. Anglin referred to Muslim immigrants as “super aggressive and alien” while Enoch accused them of “engaging in colonialism.”

“This thing that they do with women, with the rape and these rape gangs in England, it’s all part of a conquest strategy,” Anglin said. “That’s the same thing an invading military does.” He reasoned that “when you rape a woman and there’s a kid, the kid is half of your race and it’s gonna probably side with you, ultimately, if there’s some kind of conflict.”

He went on to say that armies have used rape as a weapon for centuries, and that “white slave masters used to put half-castes in charge of running slaves” both because “they were more intelligent” and because “they have half the blood so they’re sort of an in-between, siding with the master a lot of the time.”

Enoch: And I dunno if some of this was the media or some of this was going on or maybe it’s a little of both, but the media was hyping these certain incidents where there was supposedly, after Brexit, there was — I’m sure the media was hyping this too — that there was supposedly anti-Polish incidents in England. And I would love to take any English person that is engaging in anti-Polish incidents while, frankly, their country is getting raped and invaded by Muslims —

Spencer: Literally.

Enoch: — and be like “Lemmie slap you around. Like what the fuck are you doing? Like what is the matter with you?” [And] it almost feels like you’re lashing out in a way that’s kind of safe, which is —

Anglin: Yeah, they’re being politically correct.

Enoch: — it seems cowardly to me.

Anglin: It’s like Americans.

Enoch: Yeah.

Anglin: It’s like Americans talking about Mexicans instead of all these other people coming in that are probably, like we were saying, probably worse. I mean I know Somalians [sic] are a hell of a lot worse than Mexicans.

Enoch: Yes. Somalians [sic] are significantly worse. Muslims of any sort are really the worst.

Anglin: Muslims of any sort. Who can defend these people? This is just what I say to anybody. You can still say that in America.

Enoch: Nobody really wants them.

Anglin: No.

Enoch: I mean, that’s not true, some people do. But when they do polls of this, they still get more than fifty percent of [people opposing Muslim immigration]. The Muslim ban was more popular than Donald Trump, you know?

Anglin: Yeah, it was.

Enoch: More than fifty percent of people were —

Anglin: It was like sixty seven percent.

Enoch: Yeah, yeah.

Anglin: Like Democrats were like “Yeah get these people the hell out. Please.”

Enoch: Yeah.

Spencer: Yeah.

Anglin: I mean nobody likes these people ’cause they come across like something super aggressive and alien.

Enoch: They’re openly engaging in a conquest strategy that a weak people engages in.

Anglin: Yeah.

Enoch: They’re colonizing. They’re engaging in colonialism in a way that people that don’t have the military strength to conquer do. Anybody that’s falling for this, anybody that’s not like “You know, we have to get these people out, they don’t belong here, and this isn’t gonna end well,” I don’t know what to tell you.

Anglin: This thing that they do with women, with the rape and these rape gangs in England, it’s all part of a conquest strategy. That’s the same thing an invading military does.

Enoch: Yup.

Anglin: And that’s what, when we talk about “Oh well this is a tragedy” and Sargon of Akkad, that classic thing where he told me that white British men would’ve raped these girls in rape gangs —

Spencer: Oh give me a break.

Enoch: That’s ridiculous.

Anglin: [Laughter] [I know], it’s insane. White people wanna frame this in terms of morality. Like this was morally wrong. But the only actual morality is survival. I mean anything that is not related to that, it becomes an abstraction of morality where it doesn’t make any sense.

I mean this is what all the taboos that you look at in any culture, I mean not just our own but any culture, if you look at the moral taboos they all have to do with survival and what’s best for the group and the propagation of the people, expansion and keeping the species alive. It used to be smaller groups but you understand what I’m sayin’.

Yeah, I mean this is a conquest strategy on their part because when you rape a woman and there’s a kid, the kid is half of your race and it’s gonna probably side with you, ultimately, if there’s some kind of conflict. So this is a way to take over a people.

They used to do this all the time. Even the white slave masters used to put half-castes in charge of running slaves. Part of that was just ’cause they were more intelligent, but part of it was because they have half the blood so they’re sort of an in-between, siding with the master a lot of the time.

Enoch: This is the real world, right? We don’t live in this —

Anglin: They’re animals.

Enoch: Yeah we don’t live in this bullshit fantasy that’s been constructed by this media, academic elite. This sort of construct that they’ve got a frightening number of Americans and Europeans believing in. This is the real world, right? Invading armies rape when they’re done invading, right?

It’s been happening. White armies have done this. It’s what is done. It’s what happens. The Russians did it savagely to the Germans in WWII. It’s happened. I’m sure Americans did it to Native Americans. Americans did it to blacks.

Whatever. This is what happens when people conquer, and frankly you’re right. The morality is like “Are we gonna let it happen to us?” And frankly we’ve been bamboozled into accepting these moral constructs that don’t serve our group. Like you said, morality ultimately serves the group’s survival. Well our morality doesn’t. Frankly it serves another group’s survival.

On the topic of abortion, Enoch said Donald Trump’s anti-abortion stance was entirely unconvincing. (Trump changed positions on abortion five times in the course of three days on the campaign trail.) Anglin remarked that abortion is a very real issue under a Trump administration because he may be able to appoint three Supreme Court justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade (1973).

Enoch remained skeptical of this, and said overturning it would have a net negative impact. Spencer disagreed, claiming, somewhat counterintuitively, that sending the issue of abortion back to the states would actually “settle” it once and for all. (Actually more chaos would be caused by sending it to the states, as women would travel across state lines to procure safe abortions while a national constitutional standard on the procedure would be absent.) He also remarked that abortion is “ultimately eugenic” — a comment he elaborates on later by lamenting the fact that Southern states with large black populations would be the ones to ban the procedure.

Anglin, rabid misogynist that he is, was practically salivating at the idea of making abortion illegal, since he figured it would be a crucial blow against feminism. Anglin said that “if you get rid of abortion and affirmative action, you would have a situation where feminism just couldn’t exist anymore.” This would force feminists to “get married or go be whores.” To hear Anglin tell it, though, it’s not that he hates women or women’s rights (well, aside from voting rights), but his love of white families. And, as we all know, “that’s ultimately why the Jews are able to do all this stuff to us, is because families have dissolved.”

Enoch: Trump did not give a very convincing act of being against abortion, in my opinion. I was like “Really?”

Anglin: Yeah.

Enoch: I was like “I guess you gotta do what you gotta do, but I mean, well, he didn’t really sell that one.”

Anglin: But it’s a real life thing though. The judges that he could appoint would [inaudible] support [most] other issues.

Enoch: Yeah, that’s true.

Anglin: I mean it’s gonna happen, they’re actually going to overturn Roe v. Wade, which I know some people are like, “Yeah, well…”

Enoch: I’m skeptical of that.

Anglin: Skeptical that it’s gonna happen —

Enoch: Yeah.

Anglin: — or skeptical that it’s good?

Enoch: Oh. I’m skeptical that it’ll happen. I know it’s not good. But I’m skeptical, I mean I know right now it would be a bad thing for this country to overturn Roe v. Wade, but I’m also skeptical that it will happen. I don’t think it will happen.

Spencer: I agree with you.

Anglin: I dunno, if he appoints three judges. If he appoints three judges, though.

Spencer: I agree, I’m skeptical that it’s gonna happen. And we can take this in two different angels of the arguments that abortion — whether we like it or not, or whether we find it moral or not — is ultimately eugenic and these pro-lifers are a bit mad. And I would agree with that position.

But I would actually say that if Roe v. Wade were overturned, I think it would be an ultimately positive thing, because it would default to the states. And there might be a few states that would keep abortion illegal, maybe in the Deep South, but…I’m not even positive about that. But it would just kind of settle the issue. I generally hate all these hot button issues, to be honest.

Enoch: Yeah.

Anglin: Yeah.

Enoch: I don’t really care about it. I mean I actually like the idea of —

Spencer: It keeps people in ideological cages.

Enoch: Yeah.

Spencer: And it keeps us from talking about really important issues.

Anglin: [There’s] the moral argument and the emotional argument about killing babies and so on, and then the argument about [how] it’s more used more by minorities, which is obviously good. But my point has always been that this is a cornerstone of feminism, and that if you get rid of this, especially if you get rid of abortion and affirmative action, you would have a situation where feminism just couldn’t exist anymore. I mean these women would either have to get married or go be whores. They would have literally no remaining options.

And I think that would be a great thing for society because, me, my thing — and I assume you guys would probably agree with me — but the family is the most important thing of all and that’s ultimately why the Jews are able to do all this stuff to us, is because families have dissolved.

If you look at [Theodore W.] Adorno’s Authoritarian Personality, he says this. He says that you have to destroy the family to destroy white society to keep them from the concentration camp/fake shower/gas chambers. But I mean this is what they said. To destroy white society you have to destroy the family. To destroy any [family] — well, I mean not blacks because they don’t have that structure — but I mean most societies do have the family structure and they’re built on that.

And so that’s the’s in many ways the most important thing to me, and if you did that you wouldn’t even have to take away [women’s] right to vote. They would start voting with us if they were in this situation. And I think you could vote to just get rid of these people, move society in that direction. I don’t know about by voting. But for me the most important issue is the families, and I think feminism is such a destructive, horrible thing that’s broken down our families. It means a lot to me to focus on that, and I think abortion ultimately would serve that goal — getting rid of abortion in the long term. But, I mean, it’s difficult.

Enoch: Yeah, I mean, if we’re gonna talk about it —

Spencer: It’s equivocal.

Enoch: — if we’re gonna talk about it, I guess you could come up with something where it’s like, okay so defaulting it to the states would be good because the white states would be the ones to make it illegal. So then you wouldn’t have —

Spencer: I’m not so [sure]. I don’t agree with that at all.

Enoch: Really?

Spencer: I’m afraid it would be the exact opposite. I’m afraid that [it would be] Mississippi and Alabama that would keep it illegal, or make it illegal, and those are populations where blacks make up fifty percent of babies that are born in those states. I mean it would be a total catastrophe. I would imagine that all-white states would actually make it legal.