On the September 30, 2016 episode of the alt-right Rebel Yell podcast, host Musonius Rufus had Timothy Gallaher Murdock on as a guest to discuss the “white genocide” meme. Better known as Horus the Avenger, Murdock creates cartoons like 2013’s “Anti-Racist Hitler” to spread the “white genocide” meme — thought up by an elderly white supremacist named Bob Whitaker — far and wide.

In essence, Whitaker and Murdock argue that the white race is being “blended out of existence” by mass immigration, integration, and miscegenation. They believe white countries and only white countries are being subjected to this, and that it literally constitutes genocide as defined by the Rome Statute. (It doesn’t.)

Murdock told Rufus of an interaction he had with a journalist who supposedly both denied the existence of a “white genocide,” but also tried to “justify” it. It’s impossible to know if this exchange went as Murdock recalled, if it even happened at all.

But he explained that regardless of what that journalist believed, everyone “knows that there’s not gonna be any white countries fifty years from now,” and anyone who makes that claim will be called a “racist Nazi who’s gonna kill six million Jews.”

Rufus then took these laughable claims of genocide to their logical conclusion. “This will end with tribunals and rope, right?” he asked, quickly pointing out that this was “not a threat,” but that “great crimes” deserve “great punishments.”

“I don’t expect the U.N. to take it up, but white people ultimately can control their own destiny,” Murdock replied. Murdock also claimed that what motivates him is the plight of “a lot of white kids sitting out there” who “don’t have a voice.” As he put it: “If we don’t speak for them, who will?”

Murdock: This is always the conversation with someone like me. This is what I went through last time I talked to a journalist. I said “You just said there’s no such thing as white genocide. Now you’re justifying it. You’re saying we deserve it. How can we deserve something you say is not happening?” Everyone knows that there’s not gonna be any white countries fifty years from now. And everyone knows as soon as I say something I’m a racist Nazi who’s gonna kill six million Jews.

Rufus: Mmhmm.

Murdock: So what gives here?

Rufus: Right.

Murdock: How can you deny something you say is not happening?

Rufus: They’re trying [inaudible] —

Murdock: [Or how can you] justify something? They’re always going to justify — once you start throwing the criminal accusation out there, once they get past everything, they’re always gonna justify it. And you can always hang ’em. That they can’t justify something they say is not happening. Everyone knows it’s happening.

Rufus: Right. And you talk about —

Murdock: Everyone sees what’s going on.

Rufus: This will end with tribunals and rope, right?

Murdock: Nah, well, I… You know, I don’t —

Rufus: Yeah it’s not a threat, it’s not a threat but this is a great crime and great crimes end in great, you know, punishments. Yeah…

Murdock:  Obviously everyone knows of Nuremberg, what happens when you try to genocide [people]. I’m not worried about that. What we’re worried about is simple things over and over again, that’s what made the stuff so successful to begin with.

Rufus: Well [inaudible] I like the threat though, ’cause they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong, and you’re accusing them of —

Murdock: Well, genocide is a crime.

Rufus: — a crime. Yeah, the greatest crime there is. Yeah.

Murdock: It’s a criminal accusation. I don’t expect the U.N. to take it up, but white people ultimately can control their own destiny. You know, this is the thing. They always say, “Well you’re not a victim.” That’s right, I’m not. I have a giant website. The Right Stuff has a giant, giant website overnight. Faster than my site was built. No doubt about it.

But the fact of the matter is there’s a lot of white kids sitting out there, and children are victims because they don’t have any power. That’s the definition of a victim. If we don’t speak for them, who will? Right now in South Africa, we think of South African whites there as victims because they’re on genocide watch, and that’s a good point. But they weren’t always victims. At one time they controlled their own destiny. The ones sitting in squatter camps are total victims. They have no control over their destiny now.

Rufus: Yeah.

Murdock: And we’re not interested in giving that kind of control up. And we’re interested in speaking for the white kids who don’t have a voice, who are sitting there getting shit on or worse. Or worse.