White supremacist and wannabe journalist Chuck Johnson appeared as a guest on the July 23, 2016 episode of Fash the Nation — a popular alt-right podcast. Along with co-hosts Jazzhands McFeels and Marcus Halberstram, Johnson discussed his racial views, including those on the controversial “Jewish question,” and claimed to have gotten his mitts on a tape proving John McCain betrayed the U.S. while he was a POW.

McFeels and Halberstram asked Johnson the same question they ask all new guests: What was it that caused you to be “red pilled”? Johnson explained that he was interested in so-called “race realism” at a young age. At 16 he had already read the pseudoscientific book The Bell Curve, which posits that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites. He was not quite sure of what to make of the “JQ” or “Jewish question” — although he did stop short of endorsing a “worldwide Zionist conspiracy” which he saw no evidence for.

On the other hand, Johnson maintained that ethnic and racial stereotypes are “largely true” and even admitted to factoring them into his hiring decisions.

Johnson: [I’ve] gotten much more into the science of things, much more into understanding how evolution has made the different races, how the different races are different from one another, the impact of that on policy. And then, of course, I moved more into the anti-feminism sphere, noticing that, you know, men and women are actually different.

And now I’m sort of, not quite sure what to make of the JQ [Jewish question]. I’m sort of of the view that…I’m sort of an anti-anti-Semite. I don’t…I’m not totally philo-Semitic anymore. But I also don’t think they control everything. You know, I’ve hung out with them while they’re negotiating amongst each other who’s gonna pay the bill. And it’s not exactly like there’s a worldwide Zionist conspiracy, insofar as I can tell.

But this, this sort of, like, ethnic…The ethnic stereotypes, the racial stereotypes are largely true. And even, you know, I’ve even used them to my advantage in terms of, you know, hiring decisions, in terms of looking at how people think. About questions…And I was always wondering…You know, as I was growing up, like, I tutored black kids at my prep school. And of course they’re the ones who got into Harvard even though they were richer and dumber than I am.

And so The Bell Curve was the big turning point — which I read when I was sixteen — and there was sort of no going back from that. I knew it was just a matter of time before I got into trouble for what I know to be true. And  I don’t, unlike a lot of people on the sort of alt-right, like, I don’t necessarily want these things to be true, I just, I know that they are. And so —

Halberstram: Yeah, life would be so much easier if all this was not the case, but, I mean, you gotta deal with things as they are.

Of blacks, Johnson claimed it is no coincidence that “the chess club is a very white, Jewish, and Asian kind of place.” The reason why blacks aren’t fully represented in honors programs, he said, is that “they’re dumber” than whites.

Johnson: But the big, the big difference, the big thing that I started to notice was just how, you know, I’m very intelligent. You know, somewhat fortunately, somewhat unfortunately. And so I’ve always been pursuing very nerdy pursuits. And, you know, the chess club is a very white, Jewish, and Asian kind of place. So too the science journal on campus. So too…You know, and you go down the list.

And at a certain point you…If we’re all the same, you would have statistically expected that if blacks are fifteen percent of the population, they would make up, you know, fifteen percent of honors winners, you know, honor students or whatever. And yet that’s never the case. And so you have to sit…You have to believe — that every single school on the planet, and in every single environment that’s run by white people — that they’re systematically discriminating against blacks for some reason.

Or you have to believe the more obvious thing which is that they’re dumber. And enough experience with them kind of persuades you that the dumber thing is probably true.

Marcus Halberstram circled back to the “Jewish question,” adding that he isn’t sure that a real “global Zionist conspiracy” actually exists, or if Jews are merely “subconsciously working toward a [common] goal.” However, he said, “Jews seem to always be disproportionately involved in shit that I think is bad,” which is why he is “a little bit more suspicious of them.”

Johnson added that Jews are “neurotic” as a group, but stated that they make good critics, accountants, and lawyers. He also complained that of all the times he was cheated in business dealings, it was usually by Jews whom, he insisted, usually believe non-Jews to be “quite dumb.” Supposedly he’s told such Jews off, keeping them from pulling their usual “tricks” on him.

Halberstram: Speaking of Communists winning the culture war, and since TRS does put a little more emphasis on the JQ, I wanted to address it real quick. And I’ve said this before on the program: I don’t feel that the guy down at the deli selling pastrami on rye sandwiches is part of a global Zionist conspiracy or how much, you know, an official conspiracy, such as it is, exists as opposed to people who are sort of subconsciously working toward a goal. But, however it comes to be, you know, Jews seem to always be disproportionately involved in shit that I think is bad. And once you see that, you can’t unsee it. And —

Johnson: There is some truth to that. Absolutely.

Halberstram: Me, personally, I know we LARP a bit on TRS but I’m just a little bit more suspicious of them and subject them to a little bit more scrutiny, whether they’re selling me goods or services or financial products or a narrative. And I think that is a historically healthy and sort of normal way of looking at things.

Johnson: Yeah, I don’t think they can…I don’t think they…You know, I’ve had a lot of Jewish associates, business associates over the years. You know, when you do anything sort of, like, involving IQ of above 130 you’re gonna meet a lot of Jews. And what’s interesting to me is how they’re both, like, victim and oppressor in their psychology. And just how neurotic they are as a group. So I think it’s…You know, my attitude is that they should be on tap but never really on top of a lot of decision-making, except for rare exceptions to the rule.

And I’ve noticed that they’re very, very good at finding holes in things. So they’re very good critics. They’re very good at being accountants or lawyers. And I think it’s because of how they were trained. You know, you go into a Catholic church, has Jesus on the cross. You go into a temple and there’s a giant book there. And so they spend all their time amongst each other debating that book or finding holes in that book.

And the psychology or the evolutionary traits that develop that over time, this is part of The 10,000 Year Explosion, you know, final chapter argument.

Halberstram: Yes. Great book by the way.

Johnson: Yeah these types of things become very apparent to you. I think that there are other, there are other kind of group behavior that I’ve observed. So it was clear to me that Trump was going to win when I looked at all the people from 2008 who voted for Hillary Clinton, and how they were switching over to vote for Trump. And just how many of them had German surnames, which I thought was really fascinating. Like, why are all these German-Americans switching over?

And so yeah, I’ve definitely observed a pattern. And of the times I’ve been cheated in business, it’s interesting just how often those times have been by Jews. But I think one has to be kind of careful here because the more extreme the…The more…The higher the IQ, the more extreme the politics. And so we observe a lot of Jews who are misbehaving because it’s sort of obvious at a certain point. But there are a bunch of them who are very deeply skeptical and some of those ones are, the high IQ ones are the ones who actually assimilate. So you don’t really see them. It’s sort of an interesting question.

But for me, the neuroticism that’s clearly a big part of their evolutionary situation is interesting. And of course I get very upset with them because they have this idea that most goyim that they meet are actually quite dumb. And that’s true for a lot of them but I always have to sort of like set them apart and be like, ‘Look, I know you meet a lot of stupid ones but like I’m the exception. You know, and you need to start treating me with respect.’ It’s interesting how, when you say that, a lot of the tricks that they try to use on people, they just sort of, like, disappear.

So it’s an interesting phenomenon. I think it’s, I think there is something to it. I wish that there weren’t. I had a Jewish girlfriend who was probably the most neurotic person I’ve ever met, at one point. And so, I’m just not, I’m not gonna ignore it anymore. And it is interesting how the things that are the most screwed up in our society — media, education, and government — seem to have a disproportionate number of them.

Finally, Jazzhands McFeels asked Johnson about his pet project, Wesearchr, where he raises money to blow the lid off of supposed scandals, so far with dismal results. Currently Johnson claims to be raising money for a copy of a tape that allegedly shows John McCain as a POW “betraying his country” and putting out pro-Vietcong propaganda. Sure. Okay.

McFeels: So what’s the latest bounty that Wesearchr has running now?

Johnson: Well the one that I like the most is John McCain. We found John McCain’s tape, the tape of John McCain betraying his country in Vietnam. And, um —

McFeels: Oh wow.

Johnson: — this had always been surmised that this existed and he has a contentious primary on August 30th. So this had always been surmised that this existed. I think we’ve done like five hundred bucks, it’s like a $10,000 bounty. But I expect it to heat up more as time goes on. And we know for a fact he was, like, singing like a canary, which was the first time that anyone’s been able to demonstrate that. And we have the audio of the broadcast that he did, the sort of Tokyo Rose broadcast that he did.

McFeels: Incredible.

Johnson: So…

McFeels: So if the bounty can be raised by, maybe, two weeks before or a week before August 30th, it would be ideal, huh?

Johnson: That would be ideal, and you know, it’s one of those things where I haven’t, you know…I personally am going to put in money for it, because I think it’s so important. I think it’s so important to just show people that the American Pravda thing is real, and that Ron Unz and others who have said for years that he was, that John McCain was compromised, I think that that’s exactly the right approach. And that we need to be much more…We need to be much more inquisitive, much more investigative. And we need to spend less money on sort of television ads and radio ads that no one hears or sees.

McFeels: Or is annoyed by.

Johnson: Or is annoyed by. You know, the sort of, like, clickbaity advertisement world, and we need to be spending less money on pop-up ads and all that shit. And more money on, like, real research that actually brands and changes the discourse.